Episode 237
E 238: When Life Feels Impossible: Helen Ngo on Pain, Purpose, and Healing
In this powerful episode, I sit down with Helen Ngo — speaker, writer, and courageous truth‑teller who is sparking honest conversations about loss, grief, and the messy path toward healing.
After the sudden deaths of her boyfriend, niece, and best friend, Helen didn’t just lose people she loved — she says she “lost her Self (with a capital S).” What followed were twenty years of what she calls “zombie‑ing through life”: surviving the day-to-day through hyper‑independence, workaholism, and perfectionism.
Helen opens up about what she now calls gold‑star syndrome — tying her worth to productivity, achievement, and taking care of everyone else. On the outside, she was a high‑performing financial advisor, mom, sister, and friend. On the inside, she was drowning in unprocessed grief.
Her breakthrough came in therapy — the moment her walls finally cracked and she felt connection again. That support literally saved her life.
Now Helen is using her voice to help others feel less alone. Through her writing, conversations, and community meetups, she reminds us that:
✅ Healing is messy and nonlinear
✅ Grief doesn’t have a timeline
✅ You don’t have to pretend you’re fine
✅ Your story isn’t over — even when life feels unbearable
Helen’s message is simple and full of hope:
“If someone can see themselves in my experience — if my story can be that one spark of hope that says ‘me too, and I made it through’ — then every vulnerable moment is worth it.”
We explore:
✨ What it’s like to spend decades in survival mode
✨ Why productivity becomes a coping mechanism
✨ How connection — not isolation — is what truly heals
✨ What she wishes the world understood about grief
✨ The moment she chose to start living again
If you’re grieving… if you’ve been holding everything together for too long… if you feel invisible in your pain — this episode will remind you: you are not alone, and there is still so much ahead of you.
Connect with Helen Ngo
🔗 Links to learn more, join her community, or dive into her writing:
• https://www.helenngo.com/links
• https://ngohelen.substack.com/
• https://helenngo.com/meetups
• https://www.helenngo.com/8weeks
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Transcript
Okay.
Speaker A:Love technology, right?
Speaker B:All good.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So you're doing all right today?
Speaker B:Yeah, I'm doing great.
Speaker A:Good.
Speaker A:Well, we had a good conversation the first time we talked, so I'm actually very excited to talk to you today about.
Speaker A:Well, I mean, who's excited to talk about trauma and loss and grief?
Speaker A:But I actually just had another podcast this morning, and it was on grief, ironically.
Speaker A:And I want to hear your perspective, because I know you've been doing what you do for a long time, haven't you?
Speaker B:I've been writing for a long time, but.
Speaker B:But more recently, I've been publishing and making it more public and speaking up about this topic because, I don't know, lately, I just feel like there's a lot of.
Speaker B:It feels like good and evil in the world is battling each other, and there's just a lot of pain.
Speaker B:And just going through my own significant life changes has made me more confident in myself and challenging myself to step out and say, you know what?
Speaker B:I don't want to be the only one.
Speaker B:There can't be.
Speaker B:I can't be the only one who's feeling this way, you know, with.
Speaker B:With grief and major losses that I've had in my life and how I've completely zombied for the last 20 years of my life to get to where I am.
Speaker A:And I love that you say zombied out, because that's literally.
Speaker A:I feel like what people do, they shut everything down, and you're just kind of walking through.
Speaker A:Kind of just going through the emotions, and you're just not really ever stepping out into that joy because you're just.
Speaker A:You just got so much suppressed and repressed and just in you that it's just dragging you down.
Speaker B:I'm glad you mentioned that, because I didn't even know I was suppressing anything.
Speaker B:I didn't even know I was suppressing.
Speaker B:I didn't even think that I was avoiding anything because in my mind, I had built a career.
Speaker B:And, you know, just to give some backstory, when I was 17, I had lost a boyfriend right in my senior year of high school.
Speaker B:And from there, I just went right on to college.
Speaker B:Right on.
Speaker B:Like, just checking off all the boxes without ever really sitting back and reflecting on the pain I had just experienced and the traumatic loss I had just experienced.
Speaker B:I. I had wanted to paint myself and put myself out there into the world as a strong, independent individual, because those were the values that I was raised up with by my mom, never to cry.
Speaker B:Or if I did cry, you better stop crying, because it makes the other Person uncomfortable.
Speaker B:But at the time I'm like, oh, crying is weak.
Speaker B:That's how I understood it to be.
Speaker B:And so that's why I didn't even, I didn't even realize that I was suppressing anything until it builds up like a giant volcano.
Speaker B:And then it affects all the relationships around you and it permeates.
Speaker B:And how I interacted with a lot of the individuals around my life, built and burnt a lot of bridges.
Speaker B:Not on purpose, just how I was carrying myself through life, you know.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And just the fact that, I mean, when you do not deal with something that big of a loss, I mean, think about how scared you're going into your next relationships, how somewhat detached you're going to be because you're not.
Speaker A:I mean, if you don't go through the grieving process and, and know how to really manipulate that and navigate that, it's like, how do you, how do you really fully open up to those next couple people?
Speaker B:That's such a great question.
Speaker B:Same with friendships in any relationship and dealing with co workers and, you know, I own my own business now and, and dealing with my, my team, you know, any type of conflict that comes up, it, it makes me feel out of control, as if something bad happens.
Speaker B:And I, I was very snappy at people, very short fused, operated that way for like, like I said, like 20 plus years because I, I never dealt with my losses.
Speaker B:You know, after my boyfriend had died, like eight years after that, my niece passed away suddenly.
Speaker B:And then after that, my best friend passed away suddenly.
Speaker B:And so it just kept piling on on top of one another.
Speaker B:And I felt like at the same time I was angry at the world.
Speaker B:I just, I just wasn't emotionally developed enough to even see that's how I was dealing and caring about my life.
Speaker A:It.
Speaker A:And this is a crazy question, but was, was there one person that called you out?
Speaker A:Did somebody find therapist?
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:He's like, my therapist.
Speaker B:He's like, well, why are you acting this way?
Speaker B:Why are you treating your teammates like an.
Speaker B:You know, and it made me really sit back and reflect.
Speaker B:And I could come up with all the excuses, oh, you know, they misspelled this client's name or blah, blah, blah.
Speaker B:And he's like, well, what's really underlying all of that?
Speaker B:Like, why snappy at people?
Speaker B:Like, what is.
Speaker B:What is.
Speaker B:What is the threat in the room when somebody makes a mistake?
Speaker B:And I was like, taken aback by that when somebody calls me out, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, I mean, it's, it kind of you or else if nobody Called you out, you would have been going through it forever.
Speaker A:And then that's the hardest part of healing, is starting the self reflection process.
Speaker A:Like, what did I take part in this?
Speaker A:I mean, I know I was hurt.
Speaker A:I know it.
Speaker A:Because then you.
Speaker A:You open up.
Speaker A:You can figure out kind of why.
Speaker A:I mean, that's what I tell people.
Speaker A:You have to be aware of your patterns and you have to be aware and.
Speaker A:But it's not always easy.
Speaker A:You didn't know that.
Speaker A:You didn't, you know, unless you had a best friend that was like, why are you being such a b otch?
Speaker A:Like, you know, I mean, it's like.
Speaker B:Yeah, I. I think through, through.
Speaker B:Like I have.
Speaker B:I have, you know, a couple of really good friends who've been with me for a long time and they know my personality.
Speaker B:I have one friend, she called me a sea urchin.
Speaker B:Like on the outside I'm super spiky, but inside I was like a soft, gentle soul that's waiting to come out.
Speaker B:And I really, truly operated like that where I had a lot of self protection going on that I like walls, like really my therapist called it.
Speaker B:I was so hardened, my shell was so hardened and spiky to keep all the threats away from me that could hurt me.
Speaker B:Heartbreak, you know, from loss of my boyfriend, I. I prevented myself.
Speaker B:At the time, I didn't even realize this.
Speaker B:And going back to what you mentioned about relationships, I was so worried about getting close with anybody because I was so afraid of losing them.
Speaker B:And so I think that contributed to how I interacted with people too.
Speaker B:When there's any type of conflict that would come up, I would deflect or project back my pain onto them and blame them for something.
Speaker B:And you know, at the end of the day, I. I really had to take a hard look at myself when my own personal marriage started to fall apart.
Speaker B:And that's when I took therapy more seriously.
Speaker B:My fifth therapist, and this one I didn't write off because I was literally at my kn.
Speaker B:Tammy.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Being super miserable with how I turned out in life.
Speaker A:And was there a def.
Speaker A:Everybody has kind of.
Speaker A:Well, not everybody.
Speaker A:A lot of people have that defining moment like that Aha.
Speaker A:Moment where this is enough, like, I can't do this anymore.
Speaker A:Did you have a moment like that?
Speaker B:I had several moments like that.
Speaker B:The one that really stands out to me was when I had children.
Speaker B:Um, and I would take the disappointment and anger from, besides my past traumas, like in my relationship that I had with my spouse, and I would yell at my kids for no Reason at the time was no reason.
Speaker B:Right now I understood it to be.
Speaker B:I was super stressed, very anxious, and I took out my anger on them.
Speaker B:And I could see how one time it, it really scared my son when I raised my voice at him.
Speaker B:And that was when I was like, oh my gosh, I, I really need help.
Speaker B:Like, this is not okay.
Speaker B:I didn't grow up in a household where my mom and dad yelled at me like that.
Speaker B:And so that really, you know, that and several other instances really shook me up and said, you, you need to go see somebody for real.
Speaker B:Like, you really need to go get help.
Speaker A:It's funny how kids can be that defining moment.
Speaker A:I remember one time they had it.
Speaker A:We had a Christmas party and my parents were both alcoholics.
Speaker A:And I kind of, it's not that I was like this chronic drinker, but when I would go out and party, I would drink too much.
Speaker A:And I remember we had a Christmas party at my father in law's house and my son was maybe 7 or 8 and we had all been drinking and he came up to me and he shook his head and he said, mommy, I do not like this version of you.
Speaker B:Oh, wow.
Speaker A:And I, he's like, I don't like this at all.
Speaker A:And I said, what do you mean, honey?
Speaker A:And I was like laughing and joking.
Speaker A:He's like, I don't like this when you drink like this.
Speaker A:And he was seven or eight years old and it was so like, like it was that gut punch.
Speaker A:But then it was like, okay, time to start really re evaluating what's going on here.
Speaker A:But it's, I mean, it's easy because you care about what kids think of you.
Speaker A:If an adult, you know, had said that to me, I might have been like, yes.
Speaker B:You know, like if a friend would say that, I'm like, oh, I would just brush it off.
Speaker B:Or you know, my co workers, because I'm in, you know, I, I'm a decision maker by.
Speaker B:I've traded in my, you know, I'm at the top.
Speaker B:I, I make all the executive decisions in my company and so nobody really calls me out.
Speaker B:And then my relationship, same thing, we call each other out, but you know, we're like arguing.
Speaker B:Um, and so really there was nobody else to hold the mirror up until a little kid.
Speaker B:My own son at the time, he was like two and a half maybe where I could see the fear and like peer, like he was so scared of me that I really looked back and was like, oh my gosh, this is not this.
Speaker B:I, I don't like who I am.
Speaker A:Right, Right.
Speaker B:I don't like who I am at this moment.
Speaker B:I don't like who I have become.
Speaker B:Some things gotta change.
Speaker B:Something's wrong with me, you know.
Speaker A:But you're not broken.
Speaker A:And to the people out there listening, she's not broken.
Speaker A:See, And I know, but that's how you feel.
Speaker A:You feel this just like.
Speaker A:I just don't know, you know, you just, you feel horrible about yourself and then the.
Speaker A:To have a child say something like that or to be scared of you, you know, that guilt and shame.
Speaker A:So if you're out there listening and you're child has said something and really put you in check, don't beat yourself up about it.
Speaker A:I mean, hopefully, you know, you listen and listen to what they're saying, but know that they also see the growth in you when you change.
Speaker A:So for the people out there listening, that is very important too.
Speaker A:Like, your child probably has never been afraid of you anymore.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:You know, after I changed my environment, that was a huge thing that happened through my therapy.
Speaker B:You know, I had gone to him for.
Speaker B:And that was the one connection that I needed.
Speaker B:Like some.
Speaker B:I was really desperate and I didn't even realize it, but I was really hungry for somebody to just listen to me and hear me out and not give me advice for once.
Speaker B:Like, just listen and give me an emotional hug.
Speaker A:Right, right.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:And like you said, he.
Speaker B:I felt like I was broken.
Speaker B:And he said, no, there's nothing wrong with you.
Speaker B:I was, I really went to him thinking there was.
Speaker B:I needed medication or something.
Speaker B:And he's like, no, Helen, change your environment first and let's see where you are and if that helps at all.
Speaker B:And you know, long story short, that's, that's what I did in order to clean up my environment, to be in a place where, where things are quiet.
Speaker B:It's not as my environment.
Speaker B:I'm not living in a combustible environment where I'm stepping on eggshells every day or feel like I'm walking on.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Every day to really sit back and, and reflect quietly without interruption.
Speaker A:Right, right.
Speaker A:No, that's important.
Speaker A:And that walking on eggshells, if you're in a sense like in a place of discomfort or, you know, just uneasiness in your life in general, and you're in an environment where you feel like everything you say you're tiptoeing around or anything, you know, the ball could drop at any moment.
Speaker A:That is a horrible, horrible way to live.
Speaker B:It was so horrible.
Speaker B:I mean, and it contributed to how I it, it influenced how I interacted with everybody around me.
Speaker B:Like, I was just so short fused and it was very tiring to be so hyper vigilant like that all the time.
Speaker B:And literally living in survival mode 24.
Speaker B:Seven of fight or flight.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:And a lot of the people that are listening on this podcast can completely resonate with that because that's what we talk about.
Speaker A:It's that trauma.
Speaker A:A lot of people had it when they were children.
Speaker A:A lot of people, like you said, it started when you were 17.
Speaker A:And then consecutive people in your life passing trauma after trauma after trauma.
Speaker A:And I always say, you know, it doesn't matter if it's a big T trauma, which all of those were, or it's a bunch of little T traumas.
Speaker A:If it changes the way you look at the world and you react to the world, it's trauma and it needs to be unpacked.
Speaker A:Period.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:My view of the world, you know, from 17 on was, this is unfair.
Speaker B:Like, life can be taken.
Speaker B:You know, you think that everything is dandy and everybody moves on without you.
Speaker B:That's what it felt like.
Speaker B:The world moves on without you.
Speaker B:A sense of loneliness during that time period.
Speaker B:And, you know, I, I, what I resorted to was no, like, you introduced me, which is workaholism, because that's what I was really good at.
Speaker B:I did work and I measured my worth and productivity because that kept me connected to the people that I cared about in my life.
Speaker B:But I did, I wasn't.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:There was a speckle of me that always wondered how much I mattered to people that I loved, you know?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And being that you, the trauma it seems like that you went through was not on your side.
Speaker A:Like, it wasn't people directly doing things to you.
Speaker A:It was things that are happening to you.
Speaker A:Like, you know, having the death and stuff like that.
Speaker A:Where do you think in your mind that, that feeling of kind of unworthiness which is the basis of trauma, where do you think that came from?
Speaker A:Just curious.
Speaker B:That's a really great question.
Speaker B:Because at the time, I felt like I had a really great family and support system.
Speaker B:And when my boyfriend died, I realized that wasn't really there.
Speaker B:Like, my, my own family wasn't equipped to deal with me and, and what I had just experienced.
Speaker B:And so what I resorted to was just to go inward, to go to retreat.
Speaker B:The people around me that I thought I could rely on for help wasn't very helpful.
Speaker B:You know, it was just like temporary advantages.
Speaker B:Like the same oh, you know, it's.
Speaker B:It's all in God's plan.
Speaker B:And all those clusters.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's like, oh, it's in God's plan.
Speaker B:I'm like, it's in God's plan.
Speaker B:Plan for my boyfriend to die suddenly, and I didn't get to say goodbye.
Speaker B:And so it's just like anger started to foster, you know, And I grew up Catholic, and that was the first time where I questioned God at 17.
Speaker B:And like you said, my whole world completely changed and what I believed in and who I relied on.
Speaker B:And I really felt like I didn't have the support system that I had thought I had.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And so your trauma is literally that non.
Speaker A:Validation really is what it is.
Speaker A:And so your voice doesn't matter.
Speaker A:It's you.
Speaker A:It's the same as the childhood trauma that people are out there listening to.
Speaker A:You know, it's the same thing.
Speaker B:I felt so insignificant when it happened too, because you're like, oh, you're so young.
Speaker B:You know, you have your whole life ahead of you, so you're gonna meet somebody else.
Speaker B:Like, you'll get over it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I was waiting for myself to get over it, and Right.
Speaker B:Of getting over it was to work.
Speaker B:I just became more independent and reliant on myself, you know, and so that's that.
Speaker B:That was really what I had to learn and go back and visit about that time period in my life to be like, oh, my goodness, like, who today?
Speaker B:Like, who do I want to be if.
Speaker B:If I encounter somebody who's experiencing that?
Speaker B:Like, I have teenage nieces and nephews, like, if something like that happened to them, I hope I can be there for them, not feel dismissed.
Speaker A:Right, right.
Speaker A:So that they don't feel like they don't have anybody and no nobody to turn to.
Speaker A:So I, I, So if there's people out there listening, and I know there are, that kind of feel alone and dismissed and everything else, I mean, what.
Speaker A:What would you tell them?
Speaker A:What would be your suggestion or advice?
Speaker B:You know, that's a great question, because different things work for different people at the time.
Speaker B:And even now, what has stayed consistent with me the entire time period is writing in my journal and really sitting down and putting my thoughts on paper.
Speaker B:That was what held my emotions.
Speaker B:And, you know, I have volumes and volumes of journals that I've looked back on just to re.
Speaker B:To go and reflect.
Speaker B:So that's.
Speaker B:That's one thing I would.
Speaker B:One simple action that somebody can do to put things in motion of like, okay, I. I'm doing something.
Speaker B:I'M writing a thought down, just one.
Speaker B:Even if it's just one sentence a day.
Speaker B:Like, I'm angry today.
Speaker B:Like, just write down what you are feeling in the moment, at that moment.
Speaker A:And they say there's so much power in the putting it to written words to that.
Speaker A:There's so much of the synapses rewiring when you're talking through things and just.
Speaker A:There's so much magic that happens in that journaling, you know, my one regret.
Speaker A:Well, it's not my one regret.
Speaker A:I have a couple more regrets.
Speaker A:But, um, I was always.
Speaker A:My journals were always read.
Speaker A:I started writing when I was a very young child and I would journal and journal and then my mom would find it didn't matter how many locks I had on those diaries.
Speaker A:She would read them and then I would get beat for what I wrote and.
Speaker A:And I still to this day, I journal for a while and then I crumple it up and throw it away.
Speaker A:And I think it became a habit.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It was like my cleansing.
Speaker A:Like I journal for a while and then I. I just get rid of it.
Speaker A:Like burn it, put it in a river.
Speaker A:When I was little, I used to rip up my paper papers after I wrote them and put them in a river and like watch them float away, like, oh, there goes all my bad stuff.
Speaker A:But it's.
Speaker A:It's almost really saddening that I'm like, oh my God, I'm 57 and I've journaled thousands and thousands of hours and I really don't.
Speaker A:I have like two journals to show for it.
Speaker B:Hey, that's how you release it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean.
Speaker A:And so I'm just like, oh, I wish I could go back and have them.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:But it's like that was my.
Speaker A:I knew.
Speaker A:So I started after my parents.
Speaker A:But, you know, after a while I got really old writing something and then getting beaten up for it the next day.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:But there is so much power in just speaking it and writing it.
Speaker A:I just.
Speaker A:We were just talking about that with.
Speaker A:Who was.
Speaker A:It was a.
Speaker A:Can't think of her name.
Speaker A:But she was doing like she does, energy healing.
Speaker A:And she said, you know, just.
Speaker A:Just write it down.
Speaker A:You gotta write it down and.
Speaker A:And make that connection.
Speaker A:And that's really good advice.
Speaker A:Really, really good advice.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because I. I mean, I could say, oh, go see a therapist.
Speaker B:But I know in my own experience I've had five, not all of them are helpful.
Speaker B:Then you feel like you're reciting the same thing over and over and you give up.
Speaker B:And I don't want to give that advice to somebody, you know, to tell somebody.
Speaker B:So for me, the best thing I did just from my own experience is to write it something down.
Speaker B:To release it out of your body and then do what you, you were suggesting is to either burn it, crumple it up, or just to put your thoughts down on paper, your papers, the receiver of the information.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And you made a very valid point of getting it out of your body because I think that is with the people that have that kind.
Speaker A:I mean, I don't, I didn't, we didn't even get into the physical manifestation of what you were going through.
Speaker A:But to keep that kind of pain and grief inside of you and not have a way to get it out of your body cannot be good for your body.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:I, I know it very well.
Speaker B:I know it very well.
Speaker B:I, I wish that, you know, looking back, that I had written more on a daily basis.
Speaker B:I, I used to only write like maybe once or twice a week, but I wish I had done it more on, on a daily basis, even if it's just a sentence.
Speaker B:So, you know, action puts things into motion and it makes you feel alive and not be stuck in your depression or feel locked in to, to the mode that you're in.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:And, and you know, we were talking about like the five stages of grief and, and I want to hear your take on this because I personally do not believe there is any timeline in grief.
Speaker A:I don't care if something happened to you when you were three, if you have not dealt with it and you're still 57, you're still grieving that if you have not dealt with it.
Speaker A:So what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker B: I: Speaker B:I remember my ex would say to me when we were in couples counseling, well, you need to heal faster so that our relationship could get better.
Speaker B:And that was just the most heartbreaking thing to me because I wasn't ready.
Speaker B:Like, you can't put somebody on a five step program to heal.
Speaker B:I, you know, if somebody's trying to sell you that you can go through those steps, but it doesn't mean that after you've read that book or, or did those exercises that it's going to immediately happen.
Speaker B:It, it doesn't because you have to one realize that it's an, you know, it's, it's a pain that you're experiencing.
Speaker B:First of all, where is it coming from?
Speaker B:What's the Roots of it.
Speaker B:Like I said, it took me 20 years to even realize how I was operating.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:I literally was on muscle memory the entire time period.
Speaker B:You know, like, on paper, visually and.
Speaker B:And financially, I was successful, but inside I hated myself.
Speaker B:Tammy.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Bless your heart.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that's.
Speaker A:That's why when we were talking about, like, this cliches, like, I can picture, you know, I'm picturing some of the things, you know, and I can.
Speaker A:I can do the same thing.
Speaker A:I had a foster sister who shot herself.
Speaker A:And, you know, and I can remember people going, it was six months ago.
Speaker A:Get over it.
Speaker A:What do you mean, get over it?
Speaker A:Yeah, like, I didn't have any.
Speaker A:Like, I didn't even deal.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker A:I don't even think I ever dealt with that until, like, I was, like, 40.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, when I was 16, in the same house with her, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:For.
Speaker B:For me, it was avoiding my.
Speaker B:The pain that I was experiencing, the heartbreaks that I experiencing.
Speaker B:And then I. I try to shove it away and lock and key and exile those emotions as much as possible.
Speaker B:But then it also prevented me from being able to fully open up to anybody, to fully love somebody, you know, and allowing.
Speaker B:I think that contributed to the downfall of my marriage, too, is because I wasn't open enough yet and wasn't ready to be open enough yet to receive the love again because I was so scared.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So you mentioned something in one of our questions that we had talked about about a Gold Star syndrome.
Speaker A:Is that the perfectionism that you're talking about?
Speaker B:That is, yeah.
Speaker B:I really thought that keeping myself busy just to keep my mind off of things and overbooked calendar, like, that was my.
Speaker B:My thing that I resorted to to keep myself from feeling any emotions at all.
Speaker B:So my therapist had said, you know, when I started working with him about four or five years ago.
Speaker B:So, Helen, you came in here and you had, like, three feelings.
Speaker B:Happy, annoyed, angry, sad.
Speaker B:And that was pretty much it.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:You know, I discovered disappointment, I discovered embarrassment and shame.
Speaker B:And really, obviously I felt those things.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:But sitting in it and allowing myself to.
Speaker B:To go through those motions and working through it in a healthy way instead of being combustible or extremely reactive and projecting it onto other people, that's.
Speaker B:That's what it was.
Speaker B:But, yeah, the Gold Star syndrome, that was.
Speaker B:That was me.
Speaker B:I was just driving for the next dollar, like, looking for money, recognition, acknowledgments, awards, things like that.
Speaker B:And that drew my life, and I became robotic.
Speaker B:And like I said, Just muscle memory of doing, doing, doing, but not really being what was inside of me.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And, you know, that's very normal with when people go through addiction recovery, too.
Speaker A:And it's so funny because people will be like, well, I'm not drinking.
Speaker A:But now you've picked up three jobs and you're working 22 hours a day.
Speaker A:Like, you're now just.
Speaker A:That's your addiction now.
Speaker A:Like, you literally have just moved it into that.
Speaker A:Because it's just a.
Speaker A:It's a coping mechanism to block everything out.
Speaker A:So you might as well just go back to drinking because at least you don't have to work three jobs.
Speaker B:The addiction shifted to something else.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Like, I was addicted to work.
Speaker B:It kept my mind busy enough to think about what was really internally happening.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:When my mom died, I was the same way.
Speaker A:I literally was in high school and just out of high school and literally working two, three jobs.
Speaker A:It was 24 hours a day.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And I even find me.
Speaker A:And I'm 57 now, but I find that when I start getting stressed out, it's like, what do I do?
Speaker A:I just.
Speaker A:I work.
Speaker A:I keep.
Speaker A:You know, it's like.
Speaker A:Because at least I feel like, well, at least I'm doing something productive.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker B:See?
Speaker B:So you understand what I mean.
Speaker B:It's like, oh, at least I'm doing something with my life and not like, you know, sitting crying in my closet.
Speaker B:Like, come on, Helen, get yourself together.
Speaker B:Like, that was the dialogue I was telling myself.
Speaker A:But, you know, we all know it's.
Speaker A:It's okay to not be okay and not be okay.
Speaker A:We just need someone to validate that and be like, yes, it's.
Speaker A:Take the time.
Speaker A:Heal yourself.
Speaker A:So, wow, that's.
Speaker B:It's like you said, it's just so easy to go back into that coping mechanism.
Speaker B:You don't.
Speaker B:It.
Speaker B:You know, for me, I have to really pause and catch myself, like, is this an opportunity that I'm taking on, or is this really a distraction from.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Something I'm trying to avoid, an emotion I'm trying to avoid.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And if, you know, ultimately, like I tell people, if, you know ultimately, like, what your main goal is and what your main end goal is, which to me, you know, is peace, is just ultimate inner peace.
Speaker B:That's what I want.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's.
Speaker A:I mean, and that's what we all deserve, and that's what I think we're all striving for at some point, is just peace in our mind and our body and our.
Speaker A:In our relationships and everything Just peace.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:So when you do those things, like, oh, I'm gonna pick up this extra task, I'm gonna do that.
Speaker A:It's like, is that really getting me there?
Speaker A:Or like you said, is that a band aid, Right.
Speaker A:Is it just buying me enough?
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:It's a distraction.
Speaker A:Is.
Speaker A:It's just buying me in a couple more days, right?
Speaker B:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I, I thought it was like, oh, do things that make you happy.
Speaker B:I'm like, no, I'm gonna do things that give me peace.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And calm.
Speaker B:I don't want to overload my schedule.
Speaker B:I want consecutive days of not.
Speaker B:I mean, stress is part of life and in daily activity, but like, how many consecutive days can I have of like, just peace where I'm not, you know, moving from bouncing from one thing to the next to the task this and task that, you know, and learning to move a little bit slower too.
Speaker A:Right, exactly.
Speaker A:Which is in this day and age is next to impossible.
Speaker A:But you really.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:In this day and age, you really have to have some self worth to be able to feel like you're deserved, deserving enough to slow down.
Speaker A:That's really.
Speaker A:And that's hard because we're in a hustle bustle world and it's those personal boundaries of, you know, saying no, not taking on those extra things.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So to me, my measurement of that is like, how many, you know, am I, Do I have how many.
Speaker B:How much time can I block off to.
Speaker B:To watch tv?
Speaker B:Like, because I used to think watching TV was lazy.
Speaker B:That was from my upbringing too, though.
Speaker B:That wasn't from loss or anything.
Speaker B:That was, you know, something drilled in me where you can't be lazy.
Speaker B:You have to be productive.
Speaker B:And watching TV is.
Speaker B:You're not doing what you need to be doing.
Speaker A:Where sometimes it's just a mental break.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker A:Sometimes literally shows.
Speaker A:Now my, My husband picked like a show.
Speaker A:Like right now he's on the Love Boat.
Speaker A:You ever watch the Love Boat?
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:I'm watching every day.
Speaker A:I come home and he.
Speaker A:He's a fisherman.
Speaker A:He gets upset.
Speaker A:Super early in the morning, he comes home, he sits on his couch and he turns on the Love Boat.
Speaker A:And I'm like, okay, that's what we're doing.
Speaker A:And that's kind of our.
Speaker A:Just, you know, and part of me is like, okay, if I was stressed out, it would probably be a bad thing.
Speaker A: watch some stupid, frivolous: Speaker A:But it's, it is funny.
Speaker A:But then again, you have to be careful for the people out there listening.
Speaker A:Like the domes, the doom.
Speaker A:Scrolling like that is.
Speaker A:That is a form of dissociation.
Speaker A:You literally are just.
Speaker A:I can't deal.
Speaker A:I'm overwhelmed.
Speaker A:I'm gonna just do that.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:And, but you know, at the same, like sometimes five minutes.
Speaker A:That's why I say set some boundaries.
Speaker A:Like five, ten minutes.
Speaker A:Like you can do that.
Speaker A:Don't.
Speaker A:If you're sitting there six hours later and you're still scrolling, maybe we got some issues.
Speaker A:But yeah, you know, you do need that mental, that mental break.
Speaker A:I mean, you do.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I, I for sure.
Speaker B:For somebody who is a workaholic like me, any type A personalities out there, like watching TV is okay.
Speaker B:Every now and again, you know, taking a mental break from making decisions for an hour or two, you know, I had to rewire myself and relearn that it's.
Speaker B:It's okay.
Speaker B:And reteach myself that I'm not a lazy person.
Speaker B:I'm just taking a mental break right now and do something that I can laugh.
Speaker B:And one thing that my therapist told me to do when we first started working together was stop reading self help books and start reading books that I actually enjoy.
Speaker B:And that was even really hard for me to do.
Speaker B:I'm like, enjoy what?
Speaker B:Don't I need to be like, working on myself?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Learning something or learning something.
Speaker B:He's like, fine, if you love reading.
Speaker B:I knew I loved reading.
Speaker B:He knew that too.
Speaker B:He said, but try to find something that's entertaining just in pure entertainment and see what it feels like.
Speaker B:That was my introduction to experiencing joy again and not trying to work on myself and progressing all the time.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:How'd it work for you?
Speaker B:It's working great.
Speaker B:I haven't read it well.
Speaker B:I read one parenting book.
Speaker B:I don't know if you consider that as self help, but, you know, I've read one parenting book, but lately I've been reading a lot of memoirs and fiction.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And, and really.
Speaker B:And that, that exercise has really forced me to be more present.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:That's a good.
Speaker A:For the people out there listening.
Speaker A:That is actually very good advice because I, I agree.
Speaker A:I go to the bookstore and I want to go.
Speaker A:I'm going on a cruise and I like go to the bookstore and I'm like, oh, let me get something so I can sit and relax.
Speaker A:Well, I'm reading about the brain.
Speaker A:Like it's not relaxing.
Speaker A:It's not.
Speaker B:Or time management or something.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's like teaching me what to do.
Speaker A:And I'm taking notes and I'M highlighting and I'm is not relaxing.
Speaker B:But how much of it do you actually implement?
Speaker A:Right, Right.
Speaker B:Like you read 20 self help professional development books, but how much of it do you actually implement?
Speaker B:Like, does it make you feel better at the end of the day?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It's like motivational speeches.
Speaker A:You listen to them and you're like.
Speaker A:And then the next day you're like, yeah, no, I don't feel like.
Speaker B:So, so yes, I, I'm trying, I, I'm trying to do things that, that ground me and, and make me be more present and in the now.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Finding things that I enjoy and experiencing joy again.
Speaker B:Because I haven't experienced that emotion in so long.
Speaker A:Yeah, well that's.
Speaker A:And, and when you said clicked to me when you said your therapist was like, okay, you have a couple emotions and they're happy sadness.
Speaker A:I noticed you didn't say joy because there's a huge difference between that super fresh, superficial happy and true in your heart joy.
Speaker B:I didn't have joy.
Speaker B:No, I didn't have joy.
Speaker B:Zero.
Speaker B:I had fleet.
Speaker B:Happiness is a fleeting emotion.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Or experience that.
Speaker B:That's how I perceive it.
Speaker B:So I don't look for happy moments.
Speaker B:Peace can be, you know that that's what I look for.
Speaker B:Homeostasis of peace.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:That's like a real state of being.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Agreed.
Speaker A:Because yeah, you can be happy.
Speaker A:You know, you're happy with it.
Speaker A:You don't have to go to work because it's raining or whatever it is.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Your joy is when you're laying there rubbing your puppy's tummy and your heart is melting.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:That is joy.
Speaker A:That's what we're, we're looking for more of.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I had no idea what that was.
Speaker A:Me either for a long, long time.
Speaker A:Long time.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Well good.
Speaker A:So you know what it looks like now and you get to do it.
Speaker A:Everyone experience.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like as when I was a kid before my world turned upside down, I loved reading like Harry Potter was my go to, you know, in middle school, high school.
Speaker B:I just love reading all the time and it was just entertaining stuff like science fiction, anything about aliens, fantasy.
Speaker B:That was what I was into.
Speaker B:At what point did I stop doing that and switch to self help books, you know, and like all professional development books.
Speaker B:That was when everything in my world just started to shift and I felt like I needed to do focus more on achieving.
Speaker B:Achieving, achieving.
Speaker B:Because I thought that would bring me joy and happiness.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:And now I'm even like if I'm going to read a Self help or something, quote unquote.
Speaker A:Now, I do make my.
Speaker A:Like, I will get like, a spiritual book.
Speaker A:Like that is like, you know, the, you know, Deepak and.
Speaker A:And I'll be like, oh, yeah, he's got some good ones.
Speaker A:Like, and just because he.
Speaker A:The people that emphasize the joy, not the people that emphasize the, you know, grind till you die.
Speaker A:And then, yeah, you know, leave a legacy.
Speaker A:It's, you know.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So you're writing now and you're speaking, and does your main job revolve around that or do you still have your corporate.
Speaker B:No, I still have my business.
Speaker B:I'm a financial advisor.
Speaker B:And so I work a lot of clients.
Speaker B:So my day to day, I make a lot of, you know, investment decisions on behalf of my clients, and I do a lot of math throughout the day.
Speaker B:So that's why I watch, you know, Love is Blind on Netflix right now.
Speaker B:Just get my mind off of, like, the technical that I deal with on a daily basis.
Speaker B:But even in my writing that I've been publishing more publicly and just challenging myself to speak and write about this stuff, like, this is what really sparks excitement in me.
Speaker B:I want to feel that nervousness, like, an excitable nervousness even coming on this podcast, talking about this.
Speaker B:Like, I want to make a larger impact some way somehow.
Speaker A:And I can tell because it lights you up.
Speaker A:That's, you know, it does.
Speaker A:I can tell.
Speaker B:Like, I.
Speaker B:A lot of my peers in the same, you know, they're type A, like me, perfectionist, like, just work, work, work, work, work.
Speaker B:In our private conversations, they're like, helen, I am so miserable, and they're making a million dollars in their business, right?
Speaker B:On paper, they're very successful.
Speaker B:And you would think, like, oh, what do they have to complain about?
Speaker B:But they're super depressed.
Speaker B:And that's where I was, you know, and I had to really pull myself out of it.
Speaker B:So hopefully, you know, this is.
Speaker B:This is my new life's work, an extension of my identity.
Speaker B:I don't think I would have been able to do this had I not gone to therapy and taken it seriously and made that one connection that really saved my life to me, to be honest with you.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, that makes.
Speaker A:It makes all the difference in the world.
Speaker A:And like I said, you.
Speaker A:You see it.
Speaker A:You see the millionaires that are just like, I'm just freaking miserable, you know, and it seems like it's.
Speaker A:It seems like it's the people in the corporate world, usually.
Speaker A:And then you meet the people that are the, you know, spiritual coaches and.
Speaker A:And they're loving life and they're like, you know, but, but they still too, because of usually their past.
Speaker A:Because the wounded healers, you know, they're out there everywhere.
Speaker A:Everybody, everybody's out there.
Speaker A:A wounded healer trying to help people get to where they are quicker.
Speaker A:There's still that propensity for burnout and overwhelm and doesn't matter who you are or what level you're at anywhere, it's, it's there that, that threat is always there.
Speaker A:If you don't take time for self care and love and being that, finding that person that validates you, you know, so important.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:As cheesy as it sounds like inner peace is, is what I'm really looking for.
Speaker B:I didn't understand at all what that meant or what contributes to that or what it looked like.
Speaker B:For me, that's really what it's about.
Speaker B:Because inside of me I was extremely volatile.
Speaker B:Like I was just an angry internal person at God, at the world, at my family, like at everything.
Speaker B:Because it felt like things were just out of control.
Speaker A:Out of control and you weren't getting what you needed to make it feel comfortable or to process it even.
Speaker A:You just weren't.
Speaker B:Yeah, I, I just felt so unseen in my relationships and, and a lot of it, I, I don't want to blame myself, but, you know, I contribute to that.
Speaker B:It takes two to tango in a relationship.
Speaker B:And I think it was because I, I had so like thick walls, fortresses built around me that I, I was unable to let anybody in to give me the love that I needed because I didn't want to.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And we also.
Speaker A:It's very easy to.
Speaker A:And I'm not saying you played the victim game, but it's very easy to be like, I am because the way I am, because.
Speaker A:And instead of being like, wow, I am the way, you know, it's like I say, who is it Benjamin Franklin that said, you know, with awareness comes great responsibility, you know, you didn't know, but then once you know, kind of, okay, this makes sense, why then it is your kind of your responsibility to flip it and start acting differently and making better choices and at the same time without beating yourself up about the way you were.
Speaker A:Because we don't know what we don't know.
Speaker B:Well, yeah, that's the self forgiveness piece that comes into play, you know, and, and I'm starting to learn that too slowly and what that really means and stop being so hard on myself.
Speaker B:I think on paper I'm successful because I've been very vigilant.
Speaker B:And hard on myself.
Speaker B:But, you know, I can't generalize that methodology of being hard on myself.
Speaker B:Myself in everything myself up, you know?
Speaker A:Well, and I tell people the best exercise you can always do is in every decision.
Speaker A:When you have that internal critic sitting on your shoulder every time you nip it in the bud.
Speaker A:And like you said, question it, you know, challenge that.
Speaker A:But put yourself in your best friend's position.
Speaker A:Like, if you go, oh, God damn it, that was so stupid.
Speaker A:Why do you always do this?
Speaker A:Just think, okay, Tammy, if you were your own best friend, would you be angry?
Speaker A:Or would you be like, hey, it's okay, you're human.
Speaker A:Like, let's.
Speaker A:Let's get past this, you know, that's how you would act.
Speaker A:So start putting yourself in your own best friend's position.
Speaker A:Like, be your own best friend.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Not just on paper, but in every choice, every time the rubber hits the road.
Speaker A:And you have to make a decision based off that subconscious programming, which is that little voice in your mind that's saying, timmy, you're lazy.
Speaker A:Timmy, you don't deserve to sit there for an hour and watch tv.
Speaker A:Just say, if I was someone I loved, would I be mad if they were watching tv?
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:It's such a hard concept, but yeah, it's like I tell.
Speaker A:It's like I tell my clients, you have to.
Speaker A:You have to nip it the minute you have that thought, challenge it.
Speaker A:Why am I saying that?
Speaker A:Do.
Speaker A:Would I say that to my.
Speaker A:Someone I loved?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And most likely you wouldn't.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah, that.
Speaker B:That's really hard to do.
Speaker B:To quiet that voice instead of building it up.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's very challenging.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker A:Well, this has been absolutely amazing.
Speaker A:I could literally talk to you forever about all this stuff.
Speaker A:So do you.
Speaker A:You write, you speak, do you work?
Speaker A:Do you, like, can people reach out to you?
Speaker A:Do you have.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:So talk about it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:In this space, in.
Speaker B:In loss and grief, I. I host monthly meetups.
Speaker B:So the next one is October 22nd, but you can go to my website, heleno.com and it's all on there.
Speaker B:And you can sign up for my eight part email series where I take you through my.
Speaker B:The steps that I have taken to.
Speaker B:To start the healing process again.
Speaker B:There's no timeline.
Speaker B:It's just a gentle weekly reminders for eight weeks.
Speaker B:So it's an eight week healing journey.
Speaker B:It's free.
Speaker B:And the monthly meetups as well.
Speaker B:And my writing is on.
Speaker B:On substack called Thoughts after Therapy.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Perfect.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:And I will put all that in the show notes so people can get hold of you and, and reach out and take your course.
Speaker A:And I mean we all.
Speaker A:And it's the silent, silent strugglers.
Speaker A:Those are the people that we want to reach.
Speaker A:The people that are struggling and miserable.
Speaker A:But they look so like this on the outside, you know, this great big smile and inside they, they got this fist going through their stomach.
Speaker A:You know, I know those people, like I've been there where you have this big smile, but if someone says, you know, hey, what do you want to do?
Speaker A:You're like, I don't know, I don't know, like I don't even know myself, you know, like there's so many silent strugglers out there.
Speaker A:And God bless you for being one of those that are reaching to trying to reach them.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So that's what the monthly meetups are about.
Speaker B:I mean, I don't do any coaching at all because I'm not a professional healer and I don't want to be one of those, you know, self proclaimed self help gurus by any means.
Speaker B:But my monthly meetups is really just to talk about what's going on.
Speaker B:Just making a single connection for me to listen to you or, you know, or with, with other people, strangers.
Speaker B:So for some reason for me, I feel more comfortable talking to strangers than I do talking about the stuff with my own family and friends even.
Speaker A:That's very normal actually.
Speaker B:You know, like I didn't even realize that about myself until I'm like, yeah, I would love to talk about this with strangers.
Speaker B:Like tell me about your story.
Speaker B:I don't want to have any bias, you know, at all.
Speaker B:Like tell me, tell me what happened.
Speaker B:Like why, why are you, what, what is your loss?
Speaker B:What are you trying to, what are you going through right now?
Speaker B:So really it's just a monthly mean up of hearing people out, not coach, advice giving.
Speaker B:Because that was the last thing I wanted was like more advice given to me because I was so overwhelmed already, you know.
Speaker B:But just really be a listening ear.
Speaker B:That's all it is.
Speaker A:God bless you.
Speaker A:I love it, love it, love it.
Speaker A:And I will put, like I said, I'll put that in the show notes now.
Speaker A:You're not off the hook yet.
Speaker A:First of all, thank you for coming.
Speaker A:This has been absolutely amazing.
Speaker A:Second of all, if, well, lastly, I guess if you had one piece of advice or words of wisdom or something tangible that people could take with them today, what would it be?
Speaker B:I would say go to Marshalls or TJ Maxx and buy a $5 journal and start writing your thoughts in it.
Speaker A:I was wondering where that was going.
Speaker A:Marshall or T.J. maxx?
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yes, I get my pretty journals.
Speaker A:And that's.
Speaker A:Actually.
Speaker A:I get my.
Speaker A:Yeah, I guess I do get a lot of them at T.J. maxx.
Speaker A:You're right.
Speaker A:Great advice.
Speaker A:You're right.
Speaker A:Just start writing.
Speaker A:Start getting it out of your body.
Speaker A:So start just putting it out there, putting it on paper.
Speaker A:It is so powerful, even if you.
Speaker B:Don'T have anybody that you can talk about it with, any of the pain that you're going through, writing down your emotions and just.
Speaker B:Even if you're angry, like, it's okay to put it on paper.
Speaker B:So that's.
Speaker B:That's really my one piece of actionable advice that I think is very practical.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:Thank you for that.
Speaker B:Thanks, Tammy.
Speaker A:And for everybody else out there listening, you have an amazing week.
Speaker A:And go check out Helen's stuff.
Speaker A:Absolutely amazing.
Speaker A:Know that you can reach out.
Speaker A:You can reach out to her, you can reach out to me.
Speaker A:Whatever you want to do.
Speaker A:Just know that you're 100% worth every step you take in the right direction, and that your peace, your joy, your happiness is out there for the taking.
Speaker A:You just gotta go find it.
Speaker A:It's out there.
Speaker A:So thank you all, and you have a blessed week.
